Double Take: 1980 and 1981 Audi 5000Ss

Update 12/2/18: The manual 1981 5000S has been relisted with a reserve auction and opening $6,500 bid price. It bid to $5,100 last time around and I was surprised it didn’t sell. Based upon the other Type 43 sales recently, the current listing seems ambitious so we’ll probably see this one remain for sale for a bit.

Update 11/11/18: The 1980 5000S sold for $2,600.

I wasn’t particularly effusive with praise for the Type 44 Audi 5000S, although it was almost certainly the car which kept Audi’s doors open and lights on in the U.S. during the 1980s. Part of the reason that the Type 44 was so successful was that it was a major step forward from the Type 43, a car designed in the 1970s that felt…well, decidedly like it was from the 1970s. It was big, boxy, not particularly efficient and not particularly technically advanced – especially when compared to the model which replaced it.

However, there were some great qualities about the Type 43. It was the model that introduced mass turbocharging to Audi with the 200 5T, a de-tuned version of which would appear in the U.S. as the Audi 5000 Turbo. Audi used that idea to launch the Quattro a bit later, and the rest is history. The Type 43 was also quite a handsome car, though like many from the period its looks were hampered by the DOT-approved bumpers. Although well reviewed by magazines and offering class-leading features and technology, the Type 43 never really sold in great numbers. A total of 163,442 sold here between its 1978 launch and 1983, the last model year before the Type 44 replacements rolled into dealers. That was just a bit better than the C1 Audi 100 had sold here, a car with a less-than-stellar reputation. Clearly, the Type 43 spent most of its time erasing the memory of the C1, and consequently it is important as it laid the cornerstones for the more successful Type 44.

Today C2s are pretty hard to come across, though we do see a regular flow of them across these pages. Today’s examples are the more pedestrian (and more common to find) 100 horsepower naturally aspirated versions rather than the early Turbo. Still it’s a bit of a treat to get two at the same time, so here we go:

CLICK FOR DETAILS: 1981 Audi 5000S on eBay

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Qualified Quattro: 1985 Audi Quattro 20V

Update 11/22/18: Back to my dream Audi garage! After disappearing off of eBay in the midst of hot bidding, this sweet 20V-converted Quattro is back, now listed on Audizine for $62,500. Included is a link to new photos which show the car off well.

Audi landmark Quattro has finally moved beyond cult status and into the greater automotive consciousness as a desirable model. That creates many problems, though. The first of these problems is that there just aren’t many Quattros out there. Audi only imported 664 examples of the original, meaning you’re statistically a little better than twice as likely to see an E28 M5 cruising around than you are a Quattro.

But in actuality, you aren’t. The chance is probably more akin to three or four times as likely, if not more. That’s because of the second problem – though the Quattro existed as a cult car since new, the fact is that for a long time they were pretty cheap. Pretty cheap cars generally don’t make collector cars, or at the very least receive collector treatment. You can see that in the M5; cheap for a long time, plenty have high miles and are basket cases though from the start they were touted as collectable. But the Quattro? This was a car intended to live in harsh conditions. Oh, and they didn’t apply any undercoating, or even fender liners. Problem three creeps into every seam on the car.

And then there’s an unpleasant truth: in its original U.S. form, the Quattro wasn’t a stellar performer. Toting around 2,900-odd pounds of early 80s tech, the lag-prone engine developed only 160 horsepower. The result was a car that could be caught off-guard by most economy hatches: 0-60 in 7.9 seconds, the quarter mile in 16.1 at 85. Forget the typical Camry or Accord joke; this is the kind of performance you get today from a Hyundai Accent.

Of course, the Quattro wasn’t about straight-line speed, and cars from the 80s all fall short compared to modern technology. This car, then, is more a time-warp to another dimension. A personal expression of devotion to rock-flinging rally monsters and television stars that liked to do things a bit differently. And those that have survived have been loved by their owners. Often, they’ve been upgraded, too, with later parts that solve the performance gap to their original European form. The result? Wow:

CLICK FOR DETAILS: 1985 Audi Quattro on eBay

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1984 Audi Quattro

Okay, the third blue Audi in a row and so far I’ve been batting out in terms of cars I’d put in my ultimate garage. While the Audi TT would be on the list, the 180 version wouldn’t be my first choice, and though I wouldn’t kick the S4 out of my bed, I’d opt for a Avant version first. So how about my favorite chassis?

I’ve owned something like 8 or 9 Audi B2s, and though I came very close to owning a Quattro once, my history doesn’t include the illustrious leader of the pack. But a Quattro would very certainly be on my list of ultimate Audis. Which one would I want? Well, if money were no object, I’d probably choose a RR 20V first. The last of the run produced right through the 1991 model year, they were also arguably the best of the breed too; more refined than early models and sporting the 3B 2.2 liter 20V engine we saw in the 200 20V. While 20V conversions are popular, this one was factory. Here’s a link to a nice ’89 that’s for sale for a bit over $100,000.

More affordable are the cars that actually came to the U.S.. It’s a bit of a chuckle, though, as only a few years ago you could pick up a really nice example for well under $20,000. Today, those same cars are trading between $40,000 and $60,000 depending on condition. Here’s a very nice ’84 that comes in right at the middle of that range (and half the amount of the lustful RR) – so how does it stack up?

CLICK FOR DETAILS: 1984 Audi Quattro on eBay

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1986 Audi 4000CS quattro

While it hasn’t been particularly long since I looked at a B2 – either in Coupe GT or in 4000S form – it has been a bit since we saw a nice example of the fan-favorite 4000 quattro. In fact, it’s been over a year since I looked at the last late-build 4000CS quattro.

Such is the marketplace at this point. The newest example is on the verge of being 32 years old and, frankly, not many have lived glamorous lives. Despite this, they are resilient. I was reminded to the 4000CS quattro when I watched a recent Motorweek featuring the then-new 325ix. While admittedly the E30 packed more power than Audi’s traditional normally aspirated inline-5, to me the 4000 still holds greater appeal and was better in its execution of a reliable all-weather sedan. I won’t go through everything that made these cars special as I have done several times, but if you’re interested you can read about the early or late models by clicking.

Today, both the ix and quattro models are few and far-between. Audi originally sold about 4,000 each model year of the 4-year run of the democratized all-wheel drive system shared with its very rare Quattro brethren, but at a cut-rate price and with exceptionally low residual value (I bought mine at 9 years old with under 100,000 miles for only 10% of its original sticker price), there just aren’t a lot of good ones remaining. Here’s one:

CLICK FOR DETAILS: 1986 Audi 4000CS quattro on Seattle Craigslist

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1985 Audi Coupe GT

Update 11/16/18: This GT sold again for $3,474.

Update 11/2/18: After selling over the summer for $3,000, this fairly clean driver-quality 1985 Audi Coupe GT is back on the market. The no reserve auction is so far below $2,000, and the seller gives a very honest breakdown of the current status of the car and notes more problems with the car than the listing over the summer. Despite that, it’s still fairly hard to find a clean GT, so this one might be worth grabbing!

Update 6/28/18: The best part of a year after originally being listed, this reasonably clean 1985 Audi Coupe GT is back in a reserve auction format. Since the Buy It Now was $4,950 last September, we can guess the reserve is probably at or over $4,000. The Coupe GT market has moved forward since last year, so will it sell this time?

The 1985 Audi Coupe GT debuted the aerodynamic B2 refinements in the 2-door version of the Type 85. Just like the 4000CS quattro I looked at the other day, smooth bumper covers front and rear were met with wide molding and new rocker covers. DOT-required 9004 halogen lights replaced the upright quad-rectangle arrangement on 1984 models, and the new grill sloped to meet stainless trim which surrounded the car. Inside was met with a revised dashboard with new softer-touch plastics, a leather covered steering wheel and few other changes. Mechanically, just as with the 84-85 4000 quattro, there were very few alterations between pre-facelift GT and the ’85. The same KX 110 horsepower inline-5 and 5-speed manual (3-speed automatic available) drove the car, but the ’85 up wore the same 4×108 hubs and brakes (in front, at least) as the quattro.

As with the 4000 line, most of the manual bits available in early B2s disappeared, and in you bought a late model it probably came standard with power locks, mirrors and windows. Most GTs also came equipped with a sunroof (manual and pop-out) and the rear wiper. Today’s example follows that convention minus the rear wiper. The package proved to generally be considered more than the sum of its parts, and in 1985 Car and Driver tested eight GT cars and proclaimed the Audi Coupe GT the best package available, beating ‘sports cars’ like the Supra, Mustang, and Camaro. One of the 3,586 sold in 1985, this Alpine White example reminds of a more simple time when you could drive a car at 10/10ths and still remain (mostly) at legal speeds:

CLICK FOR DETAILS: 1985 Audi Coupe GT on eBay

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Unloved Hero: 1985 Audi 5000S

Update 11/11/18: This 5000S was relisted and is listed as sold again at $1,525.

Update 10/3/18: This 5000S sold at $1,325.

Back in May I took a look at a 1985 Audi 5000S. As I said at the time, the 5000S was just about as undesirable as an Audi got from that period for me. Most were boring color combinations with a boring 3-speed automatic and boring performance as a result. But, importantly, they existed. And without them, Audi probably wouldn’t have for our market.

Sure it would be exciting to look at a 1985 Quattro. But they only sold 73 of those. The 4000 quattro? 4,897 left dealerships. The GT? 3,586 were sold. In fact, if you combine all other Audis sold in 1985, you still come up short to the number of non-Turbo 5000s that left dealers. At nearly 40,000 spoken for, this car here represents the bulk of Audi sales and the bread-and-butter of the company’s appeal in the 80s. In fact, 1985 Type 44 sales were the most prolific of any Audi chassis from 1970 through 2000 in the U.S.. That was why the 60 Minutes sham had such impact on the company. By 1988, the number of Type 44s sold here was down to 10,000 from nearly 50,000 high point of 1985.

But in 1985 the “unintended acceleration” wasn’t yet a new item and these were still selling like the proverbial hotcake. So let’s take a look at this claimed low-mileage example and see if we can see some appeal today:

CLICK FOR DETAILS: 1985 Audi 5000S on eBay

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Type 89 20Vs: 1990 Audi 90 quattro 20V and Coupe Quattro

Update 10/24/18: After being listed as sold, the Coupe Quattro was resold in a no reserve auction format at $3,500.

Update 9/26/18: The 90 quattro 20V sold for $2,600, and the Coupe Quattro sold for $4,249

I’ve owned Audis of all sorts, but the B3/4 chassis has so far eluded me. It’s not that I haven’t come close, though. My first experience with a B3 was at one of my first jobs. One of the delivery men had bought a brand-new 1990 Coupe Quattro. It was a mess, though it was only 6 years old at that point. I offered to clean it for him, and thus was born my first drive with the 7A. It started up and sounded just like my 4000CS quattro, and if I’m brutally honest, below 3,000 rpms you couldn’t tell any difference between the two in performance. But keep your foot buried in the loud pedal and the DOHC 2.3 inline-5 began to sing, eagerly heading for the redline at every prodding. The fit, finish and luxury of the Coupe made me envious of the time; though my Audi was only four years older, it might as well have been five times that. Such was the jump from the B2 to the B3. Soon after I met another Audi fanatic who had a string of Lago Coupes I would often drool over.

My later encounter came much closer to actual ownership. I met a friend in England during grad school and we quickly bonded over Audis. It turned out that back in his hometown in Canada, he, too, had an Audi waiting. It was a graphite 1990 90 quattro 20V. And, after some time, he asked me if I wanted to buy it. When I got home I pursued this prospect since I had sold the 4000 to leave for England. Long story short, when the photos arrived of the car, it was quite a bit more crusty underneath than I was hoping. His price was reasonable, but then for about the same ask a 1993 4.2 V8 quattro came up for sale locally, and the rest was history for me.

The B3 20V has never left my thoughts, though I haven’t gotten any closer to owning one. The Coupe and its 90 quattro 20V brother each have their devoted fanbase, yet they’re remarkably different cars both in how they look and who wants to own each. Both are fairly rare, with around 1,500 Coupes and roughly 1,000 90s imported with the 7A originally – and, in all honesty, probably only a fraction of that number remain today. But surprisingly I found two examples of Pearlescent White Metallic to compare:

CLICK FOR DETAILS: 1990 Audi 90 quattro 20V on eBay

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1991 Audi 200 20V quattro

Update 9/13/18: This 1991 Audi 200 20V quattro sold for $7,900

Although 60 Minutes had disasterous effects on its U.S. sales, the confabulation by the television program failed to halt Audi’s rapid developments in the late 1980s. First to launch was the V8 quattro in 1988. Although we wouldn’t see the model emerge until late ’89 as a 1990 model year car, Europeans got a jump start on Audi’s top-tier luxury performance sedan. However, Audi simultaneously upgraded the 200 model with a new performance version, and in 1989 launched the DOHC 20V version of the model. This car sat in between the V8 and normal 200, with the familiar 2.2 liter turbocharged inline-5 just where you’d expect it but now with more spunk. Producing 217 horsepower and 228 lb.ft of torque, it was down on grunt to the PT V8’s 240/258. However, at 3,350 lbs, it was also down on weight nearly 600 lbs and equipped solely with a 5-speed manual, and consequently the 200 20V could scoot to 60 in around 6.5 seconds and the boost didn’t run out until 150 mph. The V8 and 200 20V shared some bits, such as the front “UFO” floating rotor design, forged 7.5″ BBS wheels and some interior trim, as well as the obvious body similarities. However, the two cars had remarkably different character and driving styles thanks to their drivetrain and engine differences.

Both have become hard to find in today’s market; the V8 because of expensive repairs, and the 200 because of scarcity and parts pilfering. Because the 3B came only in the 200 to these shores, plenty have been used as a basis to build S2 clones or upgrade an older 4000 quattro chassis. Audi claims they built a total of 4,767 sedans and 1616 Avants worldwide, Audi sold around 1,200 total 200 20Vs here, with the vast majority being sedans like today’s example:

CLICK FOR DETAILS: 1991 Audi 200 20V quattro on eBay

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1995 Audi S6

Update 9/9/18: After being listed as sold at $12,200, this S6 was relisted again with no reserve, ending 9/18/18.

Update 8/27/18: This S6 has been relisted with no change in mileage and again at no reserve.

Update 8/22/18: A second listing was generated for this car, apparently by the previous owner, who claims it had 125K when he sold it and the current seller has forged documentation on the car. This clearly got the attention of eBay, as both listings were pulled. The last bid I saw was $12,200, indicating strong interest in clean examples of the chassis.

Back in the 1990s, the latest release of top-tier executive sedans out of Germany still got me pretty excited. Each generation introduced a bit more power, much more refinement, exciting designs and unorthodox technology. While today even fairly basic economy cars have nearly 200 horsepower, crossing that threshold in the age of grunge actually meant quite a lot. It moved you into a new performance category of sporting automobiles, and the war which was waged between BMW, Mercedes-Benz and relative new comer Audi was at its most compelling during this time. If you wanted race-car pedigree and a high-strung personality, you bought the M5. Now in its second generation and with over 300 horsepower on tap, though larger and more refined it was still the defacto driver’s car bar setter. If you wanted the velvet hammer, you jumped into Mercedes-Benz’s 500E. Topping the power charts for these sedans, it also offered enough torque to reproduce the carrier-launch scenes from Top Gun. And then there was the Audi.

Audi went about things completely differently. It, too, had a race-bred engine, albeit an unconventional one. Still sporting a cast-iron inline-5 levered all the way to the very front of the car longitudinally, drive was transmitted through a 5-speed manual only like the M5, but of course drive was executed by all four wheels. Displacing only 2.2 liters – less than half of the Benz’s power plant – the Audi approached the competition as a serious underdog. But a KKK turbocharger and electronic fuel injection meant 227 horsepower and a wide torque band maxing at 258 lb.ft. Yes, it was down on power to the others, but on the move, over changing terrain and especially in real-world situations, the Audi was just as fast as the beefier competition.

But sales were slow in the early 1990s for Audi, and it didn’t trade many of these expensive sedans. But their extreme competence, stout build quality and ability to easily take on modifications – allowing them to outpace their countrymen – have made these sedans legendary. With a strong fan base, you’d expect a lot of pristine examples out there. But coming across a sleeper like this ’95 happens fairly infrequently:

CLICK FOR DETAILS: 1995 Audi S6 on eBay

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Feature Listing: 1986 Volkswagen Quantum GL Syncro Wagon with 43,000 Miles

In the mid-1980s, Volkswagen aimed its market sights upwards and tried to gain more traction in a niche market by offering…well, more traction. Starting in 1986, Volkswagen partnered with Steyr-Damiler-Puch and made a unique alternative to corporate partner Audi’s quattro drivetrain utilizing a viscous center differential. Puch was also responsible for design and manufacturing of the T3 Vanagon Syncro, which used a different viscous coupling system because of the rear-drive platform and nature of the Vanagon. In addition to the transmission of power forwards, the T3 also offered a rear differential lock while both center and front were viscous.

But in 1986, there was a third option. Because the Volkswagen Quantum (née Passat) shared nearly all of its internal architecture with the B2 Audis, fitment of the quattro setup from the Quattro and 4000S/CS quattro was possible – so Volkswagen did it. As there was no Audi B2 Avant, Volkswagen offered the new Quantum quattro – also badged Syncro – in Wagon form, and only in wagon form. This meant that there was no competition crossover between the 4000 quattro and Quantum Syncro in the U.S. market. The Quantum also continued to run smaller 4x100mm hubs versus the Audi, which allowed it to utilize the same “snowflake” Avus wheels borrowed from the GTI. Pricing was on par with period 4000 quattros, though – base price was $15,645, but equip the Quantum similarly to the standard 4000 with power windows, mirrors, locks and sunroof and you’d quickly crest $17,000 – about $4,000 more dear than a standard GL5. Unlike the 4000, Quantum Syncro Wagons came standard only with power steering, brakes, cruise control and air conditioning. You had to opt-in the power package to get the other items.

That made the Quantum Syncro Wagon very much more expensive than, say, a Subaru GL 4WD Wagon or the Toyota Tercel SR5 4WD Wagon. But both of those cars were part-time 4WD; in order to get a car with similar build quality and seamless drive of all wheels, you’d need to pony up a staggering $30,000 for the Audi 5000CS quattro Avant. Volkswagen only brought over 2,500 1986s, making them a rare treat to see today. But the condition which this particular 1986 appears in is staggering:

CLICK FOR DETAILS: Email seller of 1986 Volkswagen Quantum Syncro Wagon

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